Jessica Fein
I'm so excited to introduce you to Dr. Maria O'Rourke. Maria has been practicing emergency medicine for more than 20 years. Obviously. every ER Doctor has a story of perseverance that got them to where they are now, and many have long and twisty journeys. Maria has both and so much more. She grew up in the foster care system in truly unimaginably horrific circumstances. It was there that she found an unlikely role model on TV who steered every decision she made moving forward.
Maria became a doctor while serving in the military and treated the most critically injured soldiers on the front lines during the Kuwait war in 2003. Today, she practices medicine, is mom to three boys, and is working on her memoir. I do want to say that parts of this episode are tough to hear. We talk about the abuse Maria survived. So if you want to avoid this content, please skip the first three minutes of our conversation.
And now it is my great pleasure to bring you Dr. Maria O'Rourke.
Welcome, Maria.
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
Thank you.
Jessica Fein
I'm so excited to have you on this show, as I've been hearing different people's stories and just talking to such a wide variety of people, there are certain people whose stories I hear, and I think, I don't know how you do it, and you absolutely rise to the top of that category.
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
Thank you. Thank you for having me on the show.
Jessica Fein
All right, so let's start at the present. You are an ERDoctor, and I'm sure many people look at you and say, I don't know how you do it because being an ER Doctor is, I don't know, maybe one of what the top three most high stress jobs there probably is in the world. But your story has so many chapters, and each one could have I don't know how you do it as its title.
So let's start at the beginning. Tell us a bit about what life was like for you as a child.
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
My life was complicated. At two years old, my mother killed my father, and I was placed in an orphanage. At six years old, I entered the foster care system and lived in that physically and emotionally abusive, unsafe home until I left.
It's counterintuitive to say home, but home. During five, six years of my life. I was repeatedly abused by the adult son of the foster family as well as the social worker. It was a very dysfunctional household.
I would spend my time down in the basement with the foster brother watching porn. And that was really the only option for me to be downstairs, or I would go upstairs and there'd be one channel, and for certain parts of the day, there'd be Marcus Welby, MD, showing on the TV screen. And so at that really tender age, I remember saying to myself, I have two choices. One, porn or two, be a doctor. Be Marcus Welby.
I mean, that's how I thought about it in my head. So I think I chose wisely at that age.
Jessica Fein
Yes, it does seem like you chose wisely. And I know that that decision really affected you profoundly right from the start.
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
I always thought of things in twos or threes, and I remember thinking, well, how am I going to become Marcus Welby MD?
One. Two, if I decide to do this thing or go here or do that, is it going to help me be Marcus Welby MD. And three, if I do do it, do I get myself in trouble? Am I going to get back to number one? I know that sounds really repetitive and basic, but as a child, when I had no role model or no one to help me make decisions, that was the only thing I could come up with, and that's what I did.
Jessica Fein
It's just amazing. And the way you held yourself accountable to that. Did you tell anybody else that this is who you are going to be, or was that your secret?
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
I used to tell the people that would beat me up on the bus, so, yeah, I used to say, use your words, don't use your fists. I'm going to be a doctor when I come back in 20 years, you're going to be in the same spot. I mean, I remember actively thinking of ways to keep myself safe.
And as a child, using those type of words, although it may sound mean right now, was very productive for me.
Jessica Fein
Yeah, I don't think it sounds mean at all. In fact, I think it's a pretty gentle response to having people taking fists to you to saying, use your words and look out, because guess who I'm going to be one day.
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
Yeah. And what I think is important for people to know from that statement is I feel like I had no control over my surroundings. Sometimes you have no control of what's going to happen to you. And I thought to myself, either this person or this situation is going to take me down or I'm just going to rise above it and just move forward. And that day sitting in front of the television is the day I made that active decision.
Jessica Fein
It's just so amazing because you made that decision at such a young age and in such unimaginable circumstances, and then you really stuck to that. And what I love about what you're saying is you didn't have control of the situation. Right. And most of the time we don't, but you did have control about what you were going to do with it and how you were going to act and who you were going to look at in the absence of role models in your immediate surroundings.
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
That's correct.
Jessica Fein
So then how did you get from the foster home and having this vision? How did you then get into the military?
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
So I left the foster care system because I aged out. I went to college for two years, and I was really struggling because I was working full time and going to school. So I decided to leave college and just work because I needed to afford an apartment and a place to live, and I couldn't afford any of that. I was stocking shelves at a 711. I rented rooms. I stayed with my friends. I'd stay in my car. I couldn't really afford to live, and so I felt like I had no room to advance my life. And I said, I don't want to spend the next 30 years doing this. So I chose the army for educational reasons mainly, and I knew that I could get a scholarship via the military.
And plus I needed a place to stay, and I got health insurance, and I got a meal every day. So I chose that. I chose that.
Jessica Fein
And you became a doctor in the military?
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
Yes. I actually enlisted as a soldier and then became an officer later.
Jessica Fein
From the outside, it would seem to me that maybe it was kind of unusual to have a female doctor in the military. Is that unusual? Were you kind of one of a kind at that time?
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
I think being a very successful and African American doctor was unusual. When I went to war, there was a friend of mine who took care of all the soldiers on the battlefield. And so, yeah, that was unusual for the two of us at the time.
Jessica Fein
Was your friend female as well?
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
Yes.
Jessica Fein
Where were you?
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
I was in Kuwait, and this was before we overtook Iraq. So we first set up the first hospital in Kuwait. So I'm not sure if it was unusual for women to serve in the military or even be doctors, but what was unusual was we were the only two African American women, and we took care of all the soldiers on the post. So we set up the first hospital. There was four doctors, two men, two women.
The men went forward to Iraq at that time. We could not go forward in the combat phase, so we stayed behind and. Ran the whole thing. So that was unusual. You were coming from such a scary situation before you got to what I would call a really scary situation.
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
Yeah. There were things that I had to do to deal with the past trauma while I was on the battlefield, and so I had to repeatedly tell myself that I was not being physically and verbally abused every time I saw a trauma patient, particularly a young female, that would trigger me. And so I had to repeatedly bring myself to a place where I could just close myself off and keep myself safe. When I left the battlefield, I had to go into therapy and really just deal with my past trauma. And I think that's really hard to do in the face of working, being a doctor, being a mother, and trying to stay resilient and functional.
Jessica Fein
Well, let's talk about that resilience, because you encountered so much on and off the battlefield, right? And so how did you become and then how did you stay so resilient?
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
Again, I used to think of things in threes. I know that sounds really crazy, but as a child, I would think of three things. And so as I did as a child and an adult, I kind of chose my purpose. Like I said earlier, is this going to make me a doctor if I drop out of school, if I become homeless, if I decide to go on welfare, which I did for about a year, how is this going to help me be a doctor? And so I continually chose to be that guy. Marcus Welby Second, what I thought was really important is I kept one person in my life that mattered to me the most and helped me succeed. At the time, I chose my brother Angelo.
He was taken from my biological mother at birth because she had lost her rights to her kids and he was placed in the foster home, and I stayed in that foster home for him. And so I tried to keep him safe and I helped Angelo get his master's degree. I helped him pay for that. And third, I think, which is the most important, is finding someone that I knew believed in me, even though I knew I mattered. I actively searched for a person that believed I mattered.
JEssica Fein
And where did you find that person? Who was it?
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
That person was my school counselor when. I was a junior. She told me to go home and tell my foster brother that if he doesn't stop what he's doing, that she would call the police. And I did that, and then he stopped abusing me. And I then every year contacted her, had lunch with her, talked to her on the phone once a year.
Jessica Fein
It's interesting because it shows the power of believing in somebody else, right? That we might not think it's such a big deal when we now you as a doctor, me as whatever, when we tell somebody and share with them that we believe in them and that could be something that's changing their life like it did for you.
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
Yet it's true. I meet her on day one, and I remember 364 days that I had hope that if I can just make it another day, another day so I could get to see her again and tell her that I was okay that I was alive. You need hope so that you can look to tomorrow. I kind of think of it as make hope into an action. Action word.
Jessica Fein
I love that. So what's the difference, as you think about it, between hope as action and dreaming?
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
Don't dream. Just do it and do it in small steps. I need to be a doctor. I need to go to high school. I can't fail that test. I can't cheat on the test.
Jessica Fein
Manageable steps. I think about, what is that thing you want to achieve And so let's say for me, it was writing my memoir, right? You can't just be like, okay, I want to write a memoir, and then you have written a memoir. It's like, what are all the steps? So making it into these bite sized pieces, things that you actually can do, right? Because otherwise we could all sit around all day long and say, I'm going to be a doctor. I'm going to write a memoir. But if you don't have these actionable steps and if you don't make hope into an action, then you don't get anywhere. It just stays as a dream. I love the way you think about that.
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
And is it easy? No. I lost two years. I went to college. I lost two years. I always hoped I would be a doctor, but I decided to work, make money, but didn't make real steps in those two years to be a doctor.
And so it's okay to make mistakes along the way, right? Refocus, continue to hope, put that hope into action.
Jessica Fein
What other tools besides turning hope into action, which, again, is just so gorgeous, but what other tools have you used along the way that others can learn from what's in your toolbox?
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
It seemed pretty simple, but I learned to channel the anger that I would feel if I thought I was being treated unfairly or if I believed life handed me the bad apple. I used to be angry all the time. Why does that person live in front of the white picket fence? I would be angry at them.
Jessica Fein
Well, there was a reason. I think there was a reason, but, okay, yes, it wasn't their fault, but, boy, if anybody had reason to be angry and how did you channel that?
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
I remember year after year, remembering and hoping that I wish I had learned to reach out the anger earlier in my life, and I just sent it to another purpose. And again, I know I said it before, but if I had multiple purposes, helping my brother, staying out of jail, not doing drugs, not selling my body, and I set those goals seems like a small goal, but not selling my body to get ahead in life was a huge goal for me.
Jessica Fein
Yeah. And sometimes it's understanding what we're not going to be doing as well as what we are going to be doing, right?
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
Yeah. Because I'd ask myself is stealing that piece of candy from the store. This is when I was about eight years old. Is that going to help me be a doctor? No, I'm going to go to jail. And then I'm not going to be able to be a doctor.
Jessica Fein
Oh, my gosh. That kind of forward thinking and being able to stop the impulsivity even from stealing the candy, that's amazing. So this is the goal you've had since you were six and our listeners cannot see you, but you are sitting here in a white doctor's coat and you have achieved the dream and you have treated people on the front lines and now you are an Er doctor. You're speaking all over the place. You are a big deal. Is being a doctor what you imagined it would be?
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
Being a doctor is just another tool for me to help people. There are stains and scars of trauma everywhere. No matter where you are, there's trauma in the room. Everyone has trauma.
And as a physician, I can tell that person, you are not alone. I love being a doctor for that reason. Is it everything I wanted it to be? Yes. Is it hard?Yes. Is it for everyone? No, it's not for everyone.
JEssica Fein
If you could talk to your six year old self now, what would you tell her?
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
I would tell her, sometimes you'll have no control over what's going to happen to you.
Find your family. Everyone has family. Be that preemptive coach for someone else. If you learn a lesson, even when you're six or seven or eight or 20, don't be a hoarder. Pass it on to someone.
Jessica Fein
I love that. I love that idea of hoarding lessons and not sharing them. Right. And now we should say you are in the process of sharing your lessons as you are working on your own memoir.
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
Yes, I am working on what I call prescriptive memoir, which focuses a lot about my life, but in the context of tools that help me get through life.
Jessica Fein
So what would you say? I am reading the back of that book. I know it doesn't exist yet, but it will exist. And it's saying, here are the top three tools that helped me get through my life. What would I see there?
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
I think what's most important for everyone to understand is you don't want to lower your standards. You want to make a pact with yourself and build fortitude. And that will help your sense of self and find a purpose. If you find a purpose, you'll set goals and then you'll go forward. Someone told me once, and I have to give him credit, breathe and do.
Breathe and do. So when we're upset or scared or anxious, breathe and do it's the same thing. Take that dream and make it goals. Make it steps.
Jessica Fein
I like that. You can't really do one without the other, right? I mean, we can breathe all day long, but we're not going to achieve the goal if we're not doing, and if we're just do do doing without taking that time to breathe, then we're going to end up so frenzied that it's probably not going to get us where we wanted to go in the first place.
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
Yeah. And there were times where I would be having such bad PTSD, such bad panic attacks, right before anything that was very important to do or say or go. I would live sometimes minute by minute.
I had to find an active way of getting over my fears.
Jessica Fein
Do you have mornings ever when, you've got such an amazing ability to identify your dream, to follow the steps that are going to take you there such an amazing example of strength and resilience. Do you have mornings when you wake up and you're just like, no, I cannot do it today. No. Or does that never happen for you?
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
Happens all the time. Almost. Almost every day.
Jessica Fein
What do you do? What gets you out of that mindset?
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
I lean on important people in my life that love me. When I was a child, every day I woke up and I would think, wow, I'm alive. And I was disappointed. Yeah. But there was a part of me that just would not give up hope. And I screwed up that day. And I would just say, tomorrow is another day. It's okay.
Jessica Fein
As I said at the very beginning of this interview, you have so many different chapters. What is your life like now?
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
I think my life now is about giving it forward, sharing. Sharing with other people, being interrelational. It's about making everyone important, even when they may not be important in their own eyes.
Jessica Fein
You're doing for others what the counselor did for you, it sounds like.
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
Yes. And I believe everyone wants to give back in some way. So sharing knowledge or sharing time with someone or telling someone that it's okay, that they messed up that day, that’s all you can do.
Jessica Fein
Well, and you're going to be sharing that with so many other people when your book comes out.
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
Yes, exactly. Yes.
Jessica Fein
We are all going to be lining up to have you sign copies of this book, that's for sure. Okay. So my last question I need to ask. You've had such an incredible life. You're such a source of inspiration and hope and courage.
Who do you look at and say, I don't know how you do it?
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
That's a really hard question. I just look around to so many people around me. It's my patients, my friends, you, your story. I think that everyone has trauma. There's trauma everywhere, everywhere you look. And so I think we're all fractured. We’re all whole and we're all broken and we're beautiful. The only folks we know about it is famous people, but every single one of us live this every single day.
And so I look to those people, I wonder how they do it without opportunity and growth and education and money, right?
Jessica Fein
And you're proof positive that it can be done. Whatever circumstances you are born into and what happens along the way, you can use these tools you've talked about, and I just thank you for being you and for everything you're teaching us. And again, I cannot wait to get the book. So hurry up and get it finished.
Dr. Maria O’Rourke
Thank you. Thank you so much for your time today.
Jessica Fein
Thank you. Maria is just an amazing human, and it's almost hard to think about the takeaways for this episode, because I feel like the entire episode was one major takeaway. Broken out into all of these mini things that we can take and use.
The ones that stick with me the most are number one make hope into an action word. Number two don't lower your standards. Make a pact with yourself and stick to it. Number three be a preemptive coach for somebody else. Don't be a lesson hoarder. Number four find one person who believes in you. Number five breathe and do. And number six, we're all fractured and we're all whole. We're all broken and we're all beautiful. I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you haven't visited my website yet, you can check it out at www.jessicafeinstories.com. Don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode, and I'd be grateful if you would rate and review it. Talk to you next time.